“It Might Frustrate Some People”

This article contains mentions of suicide.

Following Phoebe’s departure from the team, The Irrational season 2 welcomed a new research assistant to work alongside Rizwan. Simon Wylton is introduced in “A Kick in the Teeth” and initially presented as a controversial choice due to his family name. While Simon struggles to stomach the more gruesome aspects of the job, he proves to be a valuable asset in Alec’s investigations. However, now that Phoebe has returned, Max Lloyd-Jones teases that there may be tension within the group.

Lloyd-Jones is known for his work on The Mandalorian, War for the Planet of the Apes, and Woman of the Hour. In addition to The Irrational, the actor’s most recently released project is Hallmark’s When Calls the Heart. Jesse L. Martin (The Flash) leads the NBC series as Alec Mercer with Maahra Hill, Travina Springer, Molly Kunz, Rose Dinshaw, and Arash DeMaxi completing the show’s ensemble cast.

ScreenRant interviews Lloyd-Jones about Simon’s backstory, a potential love triangle, and his character’s mentor-mentee relationship with Alec in The Irrational season 2.

Lloyd-Jones Explains Why Simon Joined Alec’s Team In The Irrational Season 2

“Simon is obsessed with understanding this phenomenon of suicide and human behavior.”

What is the most surprising thing you’ve learned about human behavior since joining The Irrational?

Max Lloyd-Jones: There are multiple concepts, sometimes, that are introduced in each episode. Some stick with me, and some I remember later when someone drops a pen, and I pick it up and give it to them, and then you realize reciprocity is a real thing, not just an effect. The one that stuck with me is the Barnum effect. It’s a theory, and I’ll probably annoy some people that are massively into astrology, let’s say, but how we can interpret from very vague and amorphous descriptions of people and make them personal to us.

So someone might say, “Oh, a Pisces is like this, this, and this,” and we go, “Oh, that’s totally me.” And so that’s called the Barnum effect after P.T. Barnum, I believe, who basically created the circus and was famous for the line, “A sucker is born every minute.” That one stuck with me as kind of interesting. That we, as of course humans do, make everything about ourselves.

In Episode 5 we learn the details about Simon’s brother’s death. Do you believe that’s part of the reason he wants to be on Alec’s team?

Max Lloyd-Jones: Yeah. Hey, you should play the part. That’s totally what I thought when I got the job. I figured this was a core memory that would drive you massively, and it could either put you in the wrong direction, or in this case, I think in quite a productive one. Simon is obsessed with understanding this phenomenon of suicide and human behavior, essentially, as he experienced something so jarring.

It didn’t make sense for him as a kid, seeing his brother who was the star, essentially, suffering so silently. And I imagine for him, there’s a great hunger to understand that so maybe he can help the next person and that his work going forward could save a life where he wasn’t able to. Obviously, he was a child when it befell his brother. I think it’s an astute observation, and I tried to incorporate that as much as possible.

Simon Is Intimidated By Phoebe In The Irrational Season 2

“I think there’s a desire to impress Alec and to show that they can all work together and play nice.”

His mom has been lying about what happened, which obviously affects their relationship. Does Simon want to work on that this season?

Max Lloyd-Jones: I think we found a nice moment of closure at the end of Episode 5, and this heavy burden he’s been carrying around his whole life—he was able to find some relief from it, be able to share it with a very empathic Rizwan that Arash DeMaxi played so well.

That’s a part of his life that’s never going to be fully healed like anything like that. When we lose somebody, especially so young, it’s going to affect us forever, and especially if a parent lies to us, there’s a difficulty in trusting going forward. I imagine it will continue to affect him in certain ways, but I really liked how we found some closure and didn’t end on a bitter note at the end of Episode 5.

Phoebe comes back to the RA Team. How does Simon feel about that initially?

Max Lloyd-Jones: I think intimidated is a good word for it. She’s a big presence as far as an intellectual heavyweight. Obviously she was the number one RA before changing departments at the end of the last season. And so he knows that once she’s back, for one, his job security might not be as secure as he had hoped, seeing as the person he was meant to replace has now joined again.

So I think there’s a desire to impress Alec and to show that they can all work together and play nice, and that he continues to bring something to the table, even though the star pupil is back. It’s a fun dynamic that they’ve set up for us and gives us a very natural amount of tension that we get to bring to every scene. So that’s always a gift as an actor to play with.

Lloyd-Jones Teases Romance For The Assistants In The Irrational Season 2

“I think it’ll surprise people where it goes, and it might frustrate some people.”

On that same note, I always wondered if something was going to form between Phoebe and Rizwan, and of course, your character is now a part of their dynamic. Could we be setting up a triangle situation here?

Max Lloyd-Jones: I think viewers are going to have to stay glued to their seats to find out. You throw, obviously, a third wheel into a situation like this, with people who are working together in close quarters all the time, what do you think, guys? What happens in a workplace where people are spending all their time together and have to be so emotionally honest with each other? I think it’ll surprise people where it goes, and it might frustrate some people. I think it’ll make people keep coming back, hopefully, for season 3, to see how their dynamic unfolds further, let’s say.

I love that Alec was happy to accept Simon right off the bat. What is their mentor-mentee relationship going to look like as the season continues?

Max Lloyd-Jones: Yeah, I found that really interesting. It was sort of like if your childhood family friend became your boss and mentor, there’s an adjustment of relationship there with somebody who he probably saw as an avuncular figure prior to being employed by him. So it was a fun dynamic and hierarchy to negotiate of having to reposition someone in your life that had been, obviously, a more friendly presence and now someone that he has to impress and has to bring his absolute A-game to.

Me and Jesse had a lot of fun, and we get a great episode a little later in the season where he takes me under his wing, and we essentially are left to unravel a mystery together. I like that he starts to put more trust in Simon and gives him a chance, even though I think a lot of people in his position wouldn’t given him the potential accusations of nepotism that could come from Simon, obviously, being the son of the university owners. They created quite an engaging and relatable dynamic.

You probably have a lot of questions about Simon because your character is so new, but is there one in specific you’re hoping the show will answer?

Max Lloyd-Jones: That’s a good question. Without giving away more going forward, I would love to see where his weaknesses lie. I think it’d be interesting to find out what makes him tick. We see a lot in this season, him being a steadier character, especially after the episode where we find out his backstory, and there’s a bit of closure there. I would like to see where his flaws lie, perhaps, a bit more. I think if we get the chance to do season 3, the awesome writers will definitely explore that.

About The Irrational Season 2

Created and executive produced by Arika Lisanne Mittman

The Irrational follows world-renowned professor of behavioral science Alec Mercer (Jesse L. Martin) as he lends his unique expertise to high-stakes cases and mysteries. His insight and unconventional approach to understanding human behavior lead him to work alongside varying clients ranging from the FBI to everyday people caught in perplexing situations desperate for answers. With the help of his trusted team and social-science experiments, Alec solves crimes and uncovers the truth to answer intriguing, and irrational, questions.

Check out our previous interviews with The Irrational cast and crew:

New episodes of The Irrational season 2 air Tuesdays at 10pm ET on NBC.